![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kukla_tkoFirst of all:
HEY! How come my last post only generated 4 comments and one of them was from ME?
With that out of the way, here are my thoughts about Kids and Pagan Gatherings.
Let me share two stories.
Story 1: "Grandma, there's gonna be NEKKID people there!"
I have a performance troupe. Our performances are "family friendly" in the sense that the entertainment is designed for kids in a multiage range, but entertaining enough for adults that the parents stick around and have fun, too.
One of the places we preferred to perform was Lothlorien Nature Sanctuary. We arranged a "barter-in" trading our performances for memberships to the event at some of the smaller festivals.
During the day, we would do two to three performances on stage for the families. We also did random workshops and games for the kids at the festival. I explained to the performers that any time you are in costume, you are "on stage" and should act accordingly. If you need a break or just want to party or meditate or whatnot, put on your regular clothes.
After the sun went down, we became "unseelie" or Chaotic (or Eeeevil) fairies. By day I was the Sweetness-And-Light Fairy Queen. At night I was "Wicked Maeve." We did not stage performances, but random acts of performance would occur. The kids who ran around after dark figured out pretty quickly that they shouldn't mess with the Dark Fey. We played pranks (mean ones, too!) we said nasty things, we giggled and cavorted and the satyrs occasionally humped peoples' legs. Being in costume after dark meant making merry as much as possible, and doing so "in character."
BWa ha ha.
We were faerie-themed performance art and it was very cool. The barter in was a bargain for the festival because we were a great draw.
I told you that story to tell you this one:
Our troupe has included whole families as performers. At one point, one of my co-founders, her husband, their two year old, and her older son were all planning to go to a festival and perform. The boy was about 11 years old, if I remember correctly. He had already come with us to Ren faires and had proven his stage talent. My co-founder didn't have full custody of her son; he lived with HER mother (his grandmother.) Let's call my Co-Founder "Mary" for these purposes. Mary and her husband were very excited about going to Lothlorien. They had been before, and wanted to make sure that the boy was prepared for what he might see.
I think that they were a little too enthusiastic about explaining what "skyclad" meant. Mary called me in a panic explaining that her son couldn't go with us because Grandma heard that there would be Nekkid People All Over The Event.
I snorted and called her mother up. I started by congratulating her on raising such a fine and talented child. I explained that we really did need him for this performance, and that I had heard that she had some concerns about it. Would she like to talk to me about this?
She told me what she had heard, and I chuckled. "Oh, well you know that this is an outdoor event with camping, right?"
"Right."
"Well, we do have to change clothes for performances and such, and sometimes at a campground, there are occasions where you might happen onto someone changing clothes. I think that Mary was just trying to explain to him that this wasn't going to work like a proper theater with dressing rooms and such."
"Oh." she said. "I see. That makes a lot more sense."
"Now, if you aren't comfortable sending him to a camping event, I can understand that. I mean, he will have to pitch his own tent and take a turn with wash-up duty..."
"No no, that sounds fine. Oh, it's more like scout camp then, right?"
"Sure. There's even discussion of forming a kind of scout troupe for the children who go to these festivals."
"So there will be other kids there for him to play with?"
"Sure. Whole families go to this event, that's why we're performing."
She was excited about her talented grandson learning how to camp and going to a festival with other children.
I didn't exactly lie to that woman. I did tell her lots of truthful things about Lothlorien and what to expect from those festivals.
When we got to the festival, Mary explained some things to her son. After he got an eyeful of random "skyclad" people, Mary sat down with him and gently pointed out that Grandma believes that the only reason to take your clothes off is to wash or do something nasty. "Do you see anyone doing anything nasty?"
He looked thoughtful. "No. I mean, some people aren't completely covered up, but they aren't really naked, are they?"
She was surprised at his insight. "What do you mean?"
"Well, it's just like they're dressed up, but in their skin instead of in clothes. That one guy didn't have on underwear, but he was wearing that robe thingy, so he's not really naked."
Mary then explained that Grandma might not understand this, since she had never been to one of these festivals.
"Yeah." He said. "Grandma wouldn't get it."
We took him to the rituals, (not his first pagan rituals, BTW) and he immediately "got it." No one was making a big deal out of the random nudity... *so it wasn't a big deal!*
Now, if he had freaked out, or shown that he was uncomfortable, we would have either sent that family home, or maybe just restricted the kids to our campsite, which we had pretty much dominated. But he did understand, he did process (very elegantly) that there's a difference between being embarrassed that you are naked, and being dressed in the nude.
And we sent the kids to bed at a reasonable hour, and took turns guarding the campsite during the rest of the festival.
See, I think that it is perfectly acceptable to bring your kids to a festival. It's lazy parents who don't want to bother with explaining things to their kids, who don't want to supervise them either, those are the parents who expect the festivals to change to suit their needs. I find that the good parents don't have a problem integrating their kids and their lifestyle. If you want to go to a festival that's a big ol' bacchanalia, you send the kids to a sitter and go on their own. There are festivals that integrate ritual and fun, and most of those are events at which one can bring one's children and let them participate in many things. One only has to look out for things the kids shouldn't get into, and BE A PARENT.
As I explained to a friend of mine who is Southern Baptist, nudity does NOT damage children, unless YOU give them a complex about it.
However.
Here's story number 2: "You're Just Pagan."
At a much, much earlier festival at Lothlorien, I had settled down in my tent on my uncomfortable sleeping bag, and was attempting to sleep. My tent was less than 20 feet from the campfire, so anyone who sat around it on that side would throw shadows onto my tent.
Two people staggered over to the fire, and started making a shadow play on my tent. These were two very intoxicated people who were attempting (with limited success due to their inebriation) to make out and get it on right there by the fireside. Eventually, with much grunting and warbling, they managed to do the deed. And in the midst of this, the female half of this pair announces her personal breakthrough.
"My ex-husband says I am a BIG slut. So I figger, I'll prove him RIGHT. I AM. I AM a BIIIIIIG slut!"
The male half pipes up with what was his only coherent English statement.
"Yer not a big slut, yer just PAGAN."
Well. I wouldn't have wanted any children to wander up on THAT precious little scene.
So, I tend to think that there's a happy middle ground where the fun mavens can have their fun and Be Merry, and the families can have fun with or without their kids.
I just think that if EVERYONE practices some common courtesy, there can be a great time had by all.
HEY! How come my last post only generated 4 comments and one of them was from ME?
With that out of the way, here are my thoughts about Kids and Pagan Gatherings.
Let me share two stories.
Story 1: "Grandma, there's gonna be NEKKID people there!"
I have a performance troupe. Our performances are "family friendly" in the sense that the entertainment is designed for kids in a multiage range, but entertaining enough for adults that the parents stick around and have fun, too.
One of the places we preferred to perform was Lothlorien Nature Sanctuary. We arranged a "barter-in" trading our performances for memberships to the event at some of the smaller festivals.
During the day, we would do two to three performances on stage for the families. We also did random workshops and games for the kids at the festival. I explained to the performers that any time you are in costume, you are "on stage" and should act accordingly. If you need a break or just want to party or meditate or whatnot, put on your regular clothes.
After the sun went down, we became "unseelie" or Chaotic (or Eeeevil) fairies. By day I was the Sweetness-And-Light Fairy Queen. At night I was "Wicked Maeve." We did not stage performances, but random acts of performance would occur. The kids who ran around after dark figured out pretty quickly that they shouldn't mess with the Dark Fey. We played pranks (mean ones, too!) we said nasty things, we giggled and cavorted and the satyrs occasionally humped peoples' legs. Being in costume after dark meant making merry as much as possible, and doing so "in character."
BWa ha ha.
We were faerie-themed performance art and it was very cool. The barter in was a bargain for the festival because we were a great draw.
I told you that story to tell you this one:
Our troupe has included whole families as performers. At one point, one of my co-founders, her husband, their two year old, and her older son were all planning to go to a festival and perform. The boy was about 11 years old, if I remember correctly. He had already come with us to Ren faires and had proven his stage talent. My co-founder didn't have full custody of her son; he lived with HER mother (his grandmother.) Let's call my Co-Founder "Mary" for these purposes. Mary and her husband were very excited about going to Lothlorien. They had been before, and wanted to make sure that the boy was prepared for what he might see.
I think that they were a little too enthusiastic about explaining what "skyclad" meant. Mary called me in a panic explaining that her son couldn't go with us because Grandma heard that there would be Nekkid People All Over The Event.
I snorted and called her mother up. I started by congratulating her on raising such a fine and talented child. I explained that we really did need him for this performance, and that I had heard that she had some concerns about it. Would she like to talk to me about this?
She told me what she had heard, and I chuckled. "Oh, well you know that this is an outdoor event with camping, right?"
"Right."
"Well, we do have to change clothes for performances and such, and sometimes at a campground, there are occasions where you might happen onto someone changing clothes. I think that Mary was just trying to explain to him that this wasn't going to work like a proper theater with dressing rooms and such."
"Oh." she said. "I see. That makes a lot more sense."
"Now, if you aren't comfortable sending him to a camping event, I can understand that. I mean, he will have to pitch his own tent and take a turn with wash-up duty..."
"No no, that sounds fine. Oh, it's more like scout camp then, right?"
"Sure. There's even discussion of forming a kind of scout troupe for the children who go to these festivals."
"So there will be other kids there for him to play with?"
"Sure. Whole families go to this event, that's why we're performing."
She was excited about her talented grandson learning how to camp and going to a festival with other children.
I didn't exactly lie to that woman. I did tell her lots of truthful things about Lothlorien and what to expect from those festivals.
When we got to the festival, Mary explained some things to her son. After he got an eyeful of random "skyclad" people, Mary sat down with him and gently pointed out that Grandma believes that the only reason to take your clothes off is to wash or do something nasty. "Do you see anyone doing anything nasty?"
He looked thoughtful. "No. I mean, some people aren't completely covered up, but they aren't really naked, are they?"
She was surprised at his insight. "What do you mean?"
"Well, it's just like they're dressed up, but in their skin instead of in clothes. That one guy didn't have on underwear, but he was wearing that robe thingy, so he's not really naked."
Mary then explained that Grandma might not understand this, since she had never been to one of these festivals.
"Yeah." He said. "Grandma wouldn't get it."
We took him to the rituals, (not his first pagan rituals, BTW) and he immediately "got it." No one was making a big deal out of the random nudity... *so it wasn't a big deal!*
Now, if he had freaked out, or shown that he was uncomfortable, we would have either sent that family home, or maybe just restricted the kids to our campsite, which we had pretty much dominated. But he did understand, he did process (very elegantly) that there's a difference between being embarrassed that you are naked, and being dressed in the nude.
And we sent the kids to bed at a reasonable hour, and took turns guarding the campsite during the rest of the festival.
See, I think that it is perfectly acceptable to bring your kids to a festival. It's lazy parents who don't want to bother with explaining things to their kids, who don't want to supervise them either, those are the parents who expect the festivals to change to suit their needs. I find that the good parents don't have a problem integrating their kids and their lifestyle. If you want to go to a festival that's a big ol' bacchanalia, you send the kids to a sitter and go on their own. There are festivals that integrate ritual and fun, and most of those are events at which one can bring one's children and let them participate in many things. One only has to look out for things the kids shouldn't get into, and BE A PARENT.
As I explained to a friend of mine who is Southern Baptist, nudity does NOT damage children, unless YOU give them a complex about it.
However.
Here's story number 2: "You're Just Pagan."
At a much, much earlier festival at Lothlorien, I had settled down in my tent on my uncomfortable sleeping bag, and was attempting to sleep. My tent was less than 20 feet from the campfire, so anyone who sat around it on that side would throw shadows onto my tent.
Two people staggered over to the fire, and started making a shadow play on my tent. These were two very intoxicated people who were attempting (with limited success due to their inebriation) to make out and get it on right there by the fireside. Eventually, with much grunting and warbling, they managed to do the deed. And in the midst of this, the female half of this pair announces her personal breakthrough.
"My ex-husband says I am a BIG slut. So I figger, I'll prove him RIGHT. I AM. I AM a BIIIIIIG slut!"
The male half pipes up with what was his only coherent English statement.
"Yer not a big slut, yer just PAGAN."
Well. I wouldn't have wanted any children to wander up on THAT precious little scene.
So, I tend to think that there's a happy middle ground where the fun mavens can have their fun and Be Merry, and the families can have fun with or without their kids.
I just think that if EVERYONE practices some common courtesy, there can be a great time had by all.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Tee hee
Date: 2005-01-07 06:54 pm (UTC)Being Pagan...well, that just ain't an excuse...
no subject
Date: 2005-01-08 05:27 am (UTC)I'm planning on taking my future children to pagan festivals, SCA events, the Oregon Country Fair, and possibly Burning Man (I've never been--planning on it, not this August but the next one). If a kid is raised to think nudity is no big deal, than....ta dah! It isn't a big deal! There are lots of societies (in mostly warmer places, duh) where kids are naked most of the time, and the adults are almost naked if not completely. It doesn't scar anybody.
I remember coming back from my first Witchcamp (run by the Reclaiming trad) and one of the biggest things I learned? Few things desexualize nudity faster than seeing lots of naked people!